There's a huge difference between SSJG and Blue, as shown in the Jiren vs Goku fight. So, this would be him actually doing something with the already-powerful Ultimate/Mystic form that ended up getting trampled on the grand because Gohan becomes the most powerful in the universe and … It appears that in the short time that passed since that fight, Gohan was able to get considerably stronger. and in 123 Vermoud outright states that he hasn't seen Jiren like this in along time, meaning he's using the most power he has in the tournament...against SSB Goku, in base Goku states that sirens attack was "the most powerful attack he's ever felt" So low ball Goku became over 20x stronger, more so given Jiren used less power against the spirit bomb and the spirit bomb was objectively above SSB kaiokenx20 Goku, if we low ball it and says its 2x SSB kaiokenx20 Goku, so Goku became as a low estimate 40x stronger by 123. the difference between Gohan and Frieza is that Gohan had to beg for Goku to even turn blue and take him seriously but against Frieza, Goku went SSB right off the bat. Goku also has KKX20 and could crush Freeza in an instant, and if I recall SSB Vegeta was currently stronger than SSB Goku. Gohan leaves behind scuff marks on Goku's body after their final clash. Yeah it was an act for sure, but why would Frieza say he would have killed Gohan if he hadn't caught on? @erkan12: When are you going to stop ignoring and pretending like Gohan wasn't begging Goku to use all of his power because Goku wasn't taking him seriously and that Ultimate Gohan was getting completely stomped and coached by SS2 Goku? @stricnyn3: You're indeed late. 16. Piccolo and Gohan have had especially big jumps as Piccolo went from being unable to overpower Frost to beating SSJ2 Gohan and Gohan went from getting killed by Frieza's 1st Form post 1 month training to keeping up with SSB Goku. And certainly, Goku held back against Kale. This is super-STR's current optimal lineup: SSj4 Goku + SSj3 GT Goku + Floater. Golden Frieza was the one hurting Toppo, not 17. Stop making ridiculous comments. Prior to the Tournament of Power, Gohan failed to beat Super Saiyan Blue Goku's Kaio-ken technique. U6 Namekians being above him, and Gohan being above them just proves Gohan is over Z ssj3 tier which his mystic form always was. I already know I'm wasting my time with you, but it's just fascinating to read what lengths you're able to reach with these strawman arguments. What is wrong with you? U6 Namekians being above him, and Gohan being above them just proves Gohan is over Z ssj3 tier which his mystic form always was. Gohan said himself he was at full power then. Golden Frieza vs Android 17 and Ultimate Gohan(DBS) Battle. I classify Vegeta, Goku and Frieza as full power SSB tier, with Gohan being mid tier SSB (tho that may change) Gohan than proceeded to tank a hit, block a hit, and dish out a hit that knocks goku back. There is not enough space for "<" to describe it. Not to mention she had just released a bunch of energy before Jiren one shotted her. There's many more evidence where this comes from, too concerning Goku's personality traits and fighting methods. A serious Goku should stomp. Then he uses SSJB, not even SSJB enough, then he uses SSJB KK. @erkan12: "Goku just used SSJB KK to keep his son happy right?". But Buu Saga Gohan is superior to SSJ2 Goku and match SSB goku using his full power for a short time. How are we going to count the spar with Goku when we don't know how serious Goku was? @erkan12: you realize he was probably holding back right? They were clearly showing how he was hurting his back while Toppo was overwhelming 17's beam. SSB is flatly 50x higher in power level than SSG.You're saying Goku was holding back SO MUCH that Gohan had less than a fiftieth his power level?If that were true, SSB Kaioken would have turned him into paste. You're just simply never going to realize that Goku was ALWAYS in control of the entire sparring match and never took Gohan seriously until Gohan pleaded multiple times, and let his own son get a few blows after realizing that SS2 beyond god was simply too much. Buu was above them individually, but he would have a really hard time with all 3 at once I would imagine. The next future replies you give me I wont say anything else but demand an answer on why you think Gohan can beat supressed Toppo and an answer on why Gohan lost to Jimeze yet Final Form Frieza stomped Jimeze for Gohan to force your concession on Gohan's actual power level since you keep dodging these facts that you know debunk your huge Gohan wank. I mean if that was true it means that Golden Frieza would likely be inferior to Buuhan. That was normal Gohan though, not Mystic Gohan transformation that fought Buu and Piccolo train Gohan before the Goku fight to do that again. If Gohans match with Frieza is a simulacrum of how an actual fight would go, then Gohan wins. Dragon Ball Super English Dubbed Episode 90 Reaction SSB Saiyan Blue Kaioken Goku Tien vs Ultimate Mystic Gohan Piccolo Review. [Question] Is Ultimate Gohan able to be stronger than SSB Goku or Vegeta? 17's beam were never causing any effect on Toppo whatsoever, and Toppo, and even U7 on the bleachers clearly stated as such (Android 18 and Piccolo specifically) that they were never hurting Toppo, but were used infinitely to stall the 5 minutes remaining. That just means frieza would win which he would. did he have to? Last time 17 was seen he was equal to Piccolo, yet now Piccolo who had been training hard this whole time, fought against Frieza and his army, and in the U6 tournament, and trained Gohan to be strong again is fodder to him. You also sound like you think Buuhan would be superior to SSB. And where is your argument against Golden Frieza? But I don't see how anyone could say Goku could win in his SSJ forms when it was confirmed Gohan fought goku with power that rivals his and Gohan wasn't fighting with his full power until Goku went Blue.... @Foremostproxy: He did not need it... did you even read what I wrote? Seriously, do you not watch Dragon Ball? @erkan12: you really think Goku wasn't holding back even in SSB? For example, if he fights evenly with Toppo or overcomes Dyspo speed, that would be more of a clear indicator to me. Lol. Toppo should be above begging of ToP ssb goku. He also fought the trio de danger all at once in base. The man is still under Buuhan significantly for crying out loud. It's literally the same thing Goku did vs SS2 Majin Vegeta during the Buu Saga..... You're just going to blatantly ignore that Gohan, word for word, said "this is my current full power!" Roshi, did way better than someone of his power should of and got a whole episode dedicated to him that was actually good and a follow up episode that had a lot about him as well and even put up a fight against Frost (who stomped Piccolo before), 8. And frankly that is a ridiculous sentiment regardless of how wacky DBS power scaling is. He would do that with SSB only. But in the fight right before the ToP where it was Gohan and Piccolo vs Goku and Tien, Piccolo didn't even try to fight base Goku he just charged up one of his strongest attacks to try to use on him. If you say that Gohan is equal to SSB Goku then how do you explain that he struggled against SSJ2 Goku? Likes Received: 95 Trophy Points: 688 Joined: Nov 8, 2011. Close. @oblivion360: I accidentally missed your reply. Why can't you answer that Gohan literally has no affect on Toppo even with his Ultimate Kamehameha WITH the help of Anroid 17 while SSB Goku ALONE literally did the same thing, as well as Vegeta and Frieza having significant affect on him? Yes when they were sparing Gohan asked his father to go all out. I think Goku would win. Ultimate Gohan vs SSR Future Trunks Power Levels - Dragon Ball Super - Duration: 1:46. Just wow. I think Goku holds back in all of his fights unless it's someone really powerful. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. @omriamar: Speculating? Goku sparring is a inconsistent jobber. Which is patently ridiculous. I did not count it but Gohan told Goku at least 3 times to use full power before Goku showed him SSB. 18 got a lot of eliminations and lasted a long time, 7. Gohan hasn't done anything in a real dire situation to suggest he's anywhere near the level to fight the way Goku fought Beerus. he used KK for the same reason that vegeta went SSB against Cabba. Archived. He's bound to fight past his limits somewhere in the tournament. KaiserWombat Retired Staff. Also if Gohans recent statement holds any weight he was confident he would eliminate frieza if the latter tried anything, this is kind of backed up given Gohans superior perceptive ability compared to Frieza. Goku could handle Gohan in SSJ2. That shows the power difference between Golden Frieza/SSB tier and Ultimate Gohan. The narrator confirms this. So I don't think being one shotted is really a bad showing for Gohan. WHY? Golden Frieza couldn't defeat Dyspo too, is that mean Frieza was also not a SSJB tier?". This new Mystic Gohan could hold his own against SSB Goku and Golden Frieza. @jashro44: What feats? Haha Supreme trust you to point out the plot hole of SSJ3 Goku being stronger than Ultimate Gohan. Again Gohan was suppressed when he was fighting goku until goku decided to use blue. Goku: as of 125 he's become exponentially stronger since 109 &110, in 109 SSB kaiokenx20 Goku is effortlessly blinked away by Jiren, even the spirit bomb is blinked away. lmao. Son Gohan is the eldest son of Son Goku and Chi-Chi, and one of the primary heroes of the second half of Dragon Ball. Goku never used the Kaio-ken against Kale. Your bias over Gohan is at the extreme levels, it's better to accept that you're just lowballing him due to your personal liking. Gohan obviously, he decently fought a SSGB Goku plus Kaioken, wth is wrong with some viners in this topic lol. Also Kefla didn't have any God ki, but she was powerful enough to match with Goku, Gohan is no different. Buuhan would win too. As for being inferior to Buuhan....Maybe? Gohan showed only a little more power than rookie SSJ3 Goku in DBZ. The fact 18 outlasted with more eliminations, and Roshi having more eliminations is already a bad sign. Anyway, probably Gohan. Question. From their fight it seems to me Goku could have taken him just fine in SSJ2 or barring that SSJ3. You simply have no clue what's going on in Dragon Ball and I can't take you seriously at all. Continue Reading. Hit couldn't even beat DYSPO until he figured out a trick to beat his senses. We're telling you he is SSJB tier because he didn't grow stronger in 4 hours, he was already that powerful. He has better techniques and is more experienced. He would not defeat Vegeta, but he's definitely in that tier of power. Goku Black wouldn't stand a chance against him. If Gohan had been strong enough then Goku would have used higher form on his own just like he did against 17. And any time Beerus gets serious in their fights(example being when he fodderized MSSJB Vegeta), it stops being an actual fight. ..Are you serious with this sentence? Oh, and keep ignoring how Ultimate Gohan even with help has no answer to suppressed Toppo while literally every other actual god tier opponent can alone. Your denial on Gohan's power is at the peak. I guess in your mind, Goku just used SSJB KK to keep his son happy right? This is hilarious. YOU, on the other hand, are some strange Gohan wanker and will wank or lowball anyone around him if it makes Gohan look good. 2. Then we have him going out in a non epic way, even worse than Tien's ring out who took someone with him. I am getting the sense though that Gohan is meant to be on blue tier though. Do you know what difference there is between SSJ2 and SSB+Kaioken? I guess you need to lowball him to since Gohan actually took an opponent that he couldn't defeat. Please re watch the episode again, because this episode made it quite clear that Goku stomps on his son without question even when non serious. So i would say Goku SSJ3 back then was maybe 1/5th to 1/2 the power of mystic Gohan. That is a very specific word choice, if it were abbreviated I don't think the wording would be so specific. You should know how Goku sandbags on literally all of his opponents, including his own son, which Gohan got on him about again... but evidently you don't know much about the DB lore to realize this case to be even arguing. We don't know if he put more effort into one shotting Kale. Ultimate Gohan begged Goku to take him seriously in DBS to test out his own power which was recommended by Piccolo, THE ENTIRE PURPOSE OF THE EPISODE, the same way Teen Gohan begged Goku to take him seriously in DBZ in order for him to finally reach SS1 in order to even hold up as a Z warrior. This is the most ridiculous post I've ever read about DB for some time. Goku should win easily, but since DBS has no sense of proper scaling, it's possible Gohan could take some rounds. @sirfizzwhizz: I already said it was inconsistent twice in this thread... @jashro44: Nothing is wrong with Gohan being that strong, but Super has been too inconsistent for me. Yes he wasn't holding back. It's clearly not as powerful as people hype it up to be imo. That would make even less sense than DBS's power scaling. @erkan12: Yeah, I'll wait until Gohan has a real fight to gauge his power. I mean just ssjg goku when he first transformed was around atleast universal. Yea but those examples were earlier on in super before the manga had goku go ssj God (or they were written before the animators/writers knew what was happening in the manga). I know people are using that fight to state SSJ2 Goku is equal to Buu arc ultimate Gohan and that’s a fucking laugh. Piccolo never said he was no match for Dyspo, he said he couldn't defeat him. I thought Gohan asked really nicely for Goku to go SSJB instead of forcing him into it and was realistically only a match for SSJ2 Goku IIRC, SSJG Goku should win this imo. He did not do it against Gohan because he did not need it. I think Roshi got the biggest jump out of anyone LOL. Someone needs to make a thread re-evaluating SSJG/SSJB's power. 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